HO 42/196, ff. 19-22, 44-49. William Hay to Sidmouth, 7 and 9 Oct. 1819.
Transcribed by Yvonne Jez, Mike Jenkinson, Ryan Jones.
Manchester 7 Oct 1819
Private
My Lord,
I have the honour to state to your Lordship that your letter of the 4th inst. to Mr. Norris has this morning been laid before the committee of Magistrates at the New Bailey. There were present Mr Hulton, Mr Tatton, Colonel Fletcher, Mr Norris and myself. Considering that your Lordship’s wish applied itself to a summary narrative of such occurrences as took place on the morning of the 16th, with certain preliminary circumstances necessary to the explanation of them, we have shaped our notes with reference to such wish. The time would not admit of our adopting any other method than that which we have followed. The Gentlemen living in the Country being gone out of town, assisted by Mr Norris I have drawn out the following narrative from the joint notes of the Committee.
Your Lordship will have received from Mr Norris from time to time, previously to the 11th July, various statements respecting the private movements of the disaffected. On that day he came over to me and communicated several particulars to me, and on the next day we went over to Sir John Byng. It was clear from Mr Norris’s account that some support would be necessary for the magistrates here, and that it would be proper that the districts should be put on their guard. Our Sessions commenced here on the 19th July and one of the first measures adopted by the Bench was to issue directions to the magistrates of neighbouring parts of Cheshire and the more distant districts of Lancashire to attend on the following Friday. A very numerous attendance was then given. I hope to be able to furnish your Lordship with the names. Mr Egerton was in the Chair, & amongst other proceedings a Select Committee of magistrates from both counties was appointed, the names of which were privately communicated to Your Lordship. At our Sessions it appeared that some spirited resolutions had been passed at the lately held Knutsford sessions, at which Lord Stamford attended; that these had been communicated to Lord Derby who in strong terms expressed his approbation of them. From the information received the Sessions signified to the Grand Jury the necessity they felt for an armed Association, and such proposition was also forwarded to Your Lordship and to Lord Derby.
The Select Committee of Magistrates met from time to time. After the first two meetings three of the committee were unable to attend and the remainder continued to act regularly, the name of Mr Wright being added to the Committee. These Magistrates of course amongst other matters received information in respect of different particulars connected with the views of the disaffected. It was soon made known that a meeting on which great stress was laid by the disaffected was fixed for the 9th August, but when the purposes of the meeting were published, the Magistrates issued a notification of their sense that it would be an unlawful meeting and of their intention to stop it. After consulting Counsel, one Sax[t]on, assistant to the Editor of the Observer, gave notice that the meeting was abandoned, but in that notice there was a peculiar expression, which caused the Committee and others whether or no the abandonment was real. The unexpected arrival of Hunt with Sir C. Wolseley at Stockport on the evening of the 8th and their proceeding to Manchester on the forenoon of the 9th, and going through the streets with an evident wish to court popularity strengthened our suspicion. In truth information was brought to us that emissaries had been dispatched to their friends to order their attendance at St. Peter’s that afternoon at 4 o’clock; this however proved unfounded. The parties proceeded to Johnson’s at Smedley, with a seeming intention to stay there; and as meetings were to be held at Leigh and at other places, the Magistrates thought that they meant to travel about to those places for the whole week, and to harass the military by attendance previous to the 16th on which day the meeting was proposed to be held. These circumstances were communicated to General Byng. However the apprehension was false. Sir Chas. Wolseley left Smedley and Hunt was principally engaged in writing and other Business.
On Saturday the 14th Hunt came with Johnson to the New Bailey and enquired for Mr Norris or me, we were not there; Mr Tatton and Mr Trafford were. Applying himself to Mr Tatton Hunt said, “I understand there is a warrant against me.” Mr Tatton replied “I am not aware that there is one.” Hunt said, “I merely have to say that that if there is a Warrant out against me I am ready to deliver myself up.” Before Dinner Mr Norris returned home and found Johnson writing a note to him. On Mr Norris’s appearing, Johnson stated the purpose of his enquiry was to know whether any warrant was out against Hunt. Mr answered, “I have issued none nor do I know of any.”
The Committee continued to meet and did so on Saturday the 14th, Sunday & Monday. Prior to Saturday different points had been discussed, as to
the propensity or expediency of stopping the meeting, and the manner of doing so. They were of opinion that multitudes coming in columns, with flags, and marching in military array, were even in the approach to the meeting, a
tumultuous assembly, and it was for a little time under consideration, whether each column should not be stopped at their respective entrances into the Town; but this was given up. It was considered that the military might thus be distracted, & it was wished that the Town should see what the meeting was
when assembled, and also that those who came, should be satisfied that they were assembled in an unlawful manner. In truth our information was such, that we could have little doubt but that the parties would assemble in an illegal manner. In addition to the general information of training from time to time there was specific information of the training to be at White Moss on the 15th early in the morning: we had also information that the parties were there told that it would be the last training that would be necessary before the meeting. Your Lordship will be aware that it was at this meeting on the 15th that Murray and Shawcross met with the treatment which was at the time detailed to you.
Under this information and being satisfied that in point of Law, that meeting if assembled, as it was expected, would be an illegal meeting we gave notice to Lieut. Col L’Estrange the commanding Officer here of our wish to have the assistance of the Military on the 16th and in the evening of the 15th. The arrangements in respect of the military were made. What the arrangements were, was unknown to the Magistrates: our advice and assistance as friends had been wished for in this respect but we declined giving them. They
were made between him & other Officers and Gentlemen in another room, so that we were total strangers to what was settled. In the morning of the 16th, we requested that the Town Constables & special Constables should be in attendance, but none of them knew in what particular instance, or for what particular purpose that might be employed [and] they attended in consequence. The Magistrates got to the ground, and were in a house fronting the area of St Peters, whence we could have a full view of what passed at the Hustings, though
we could not hear. The Area is computed to be about 14,000 Square Yards. This space was occupied very closely near the Hustings and in other parts more or less so.
We compute the numbers of those collected who took part in
the meeting to be about 30,000. Of these at least 20,000 were strangers to Manchester: we saw 5 or 6 columns march in these were from 2000 to 5000 each if not more: they marched in to quick time, with martial music, banners, and enseigns. The representation on several of the Banners have been communicated to Your Lordship: each column as it came in view marched directly up to the Hustings. As they came they were received with three cheers: their Banners were
then arranged in front & they were cheered again. This took place in every instance. After all the columns had arrived. Hunt came with his party, and the same reception took place. Prior to Hunt’s appearance on the ground one Owen came to us and gave information as to the parties in Hunts company. His information was taken in form, and a warrant filled up in consequence, and signed by ten Magistrates.
Before this the Magistrates had been not only on their own view convinced that the meeting was in terror of his Majesty’s subjects, but they had also taken the information of about 50 inhabitants who were to the same effect. In addition to this the Shops at the lower part of the Town at a quarter of a mile from St Peters, had been shut all the morning and but a very few could be prevailed on in the afternoon to take down their shutters.
The warrant was filled up about the time of Hunts arrival: Mr Andrew one of the town constables, came in the Magistrates room and told Mr Hulton that it could not be served without military aid. Nadin was in the room. Mr Hulton laid hold of Nadin by the arm and asked him whether it was possible for the Police aided by the special Constables to execute the warrant. Nadin replied neither with those special constables, nor with 10 times the number, nor with all the special constables in England. Mr Hulton asked him “cannot it be executed without military force?” Nadin answered it cannot. Mr Hulton said “then you shall have military Power, for God’s sake don’t sacrifice the lives of the special constables.”
The special Constables in the first instance were formed on one side of the Hustings; and an alley of them was formed up to the House where the Magistrates were, agreeably to a Plan, which will hereinafter be forwarded to your Lordship. As soon as the reformers came and saw the situation of the special constables they moved the Hustings twice: the first movement was about 8 yards distance: by this means they got between the special constables & the Hustings, and pushed them back: the second movement was merely to arrange the fronting of the Hustings. These men were 10 or 12 deep, linked together, their hats off & evidently placed to prevent the special constables from having access to the Hustings. The warrant was delivered into the hands of Mr Moore the towns constable. He delivered it over to Nadin the Deputy Constable.
Mr Hulton on learning that the civil power was inadequate to execute the warrant, sent notices by two gentlemen to the military in different situations, informing them of such inadequacy, and requesting their presence, in front of the
Magistrates house. Mr Andrew & Nadin & were now together. Mr Andrew headed the Yeomanry on foot towards the Hustings; but as the Yeomanry advanced on a trot, they got first to the Hustings, surrounded them, and Mr Andrew found himself mixed with them directly. He brought Johnson off – Nadin seized Hunt.
The cavalry on coming up to the House had to form. Prior to their forming, we observed the mob to wave their hats, and sticks and to defy them – they formed. Whilst they were forming and before they went up, Mr Ethelstone
read the riot Act, out of the window. Mr Silvester went down stairs, proceeded as far as he could into the Crowd and read the Riot Act, but before he had quite finished, he was pressed down by the Mob. As the Cavalry were advancing, Mr Hulton saw the Cavalry were assailed by Brick-bats &c. &c. several pistols were fired. Colonel L’Estrange and Colonel Dalrymple at this instant rode up with Mr Trafford (a Magistrate who attended the commanding Officer) and asked what they were about. Mr Hulton said, “don’t you see they are attacking the Cavalry – Disperse the Mob.” They were instantly dispersed. The Cavalry had been attacked about ¼ minute* before Col L’Estrange came up. From the time of forming the Cavalry to the dispersion of the Body of the Mob above ¼ of an hour did not elapse. The Magistrates in general, afterwards went about the town with different bodies of Troops. I went to the infirmary with Mr Silvester to learn the state of the patients who had been brought in. Mr Ransome the Surgeon, a very eminent one, a Quaker, observed to me that the Cavalry must have studied to do as little mischief as they could for the wounds were so slight.
I am to apologise for the haste in which this is written, but we can Barely save the Post, and we are most anxious that Your Lordship should not
be disappointed. Mr Norris is so good as to write the letter from my copy and I trust Your Lordship will excuse my only signing it. Should any further information be required, it will be readily afforded. As I return home on Saturday should any communication become necessary may I request that it should be made to Mr Norris.
I have the Honor to be
with Sincere respect
My Lord
Your Lordships faithful
Humble Servant
W. R. Hay.
*Memorandum. Mr Hulton in a letter addressed to Lord Sidmouth on the 17th October 1819, states that instead of having witnessed the attack of the mob on the Yeomanry Cavalry for ¼ minute only when Col. L’Estrange, Col. Dalrymple and Mr Trafford the Magistrate arrived, the Manchester Yeomanry, had then been assailed four or five minutes and were (as he firmly believes) exposed to the most imminent danger of being sacrifised, and he remained in conversation with Col L’Estrange &c. for a quarter of a minute: that is had only time to point out the point, in which he conceived the Yeomanry were exposed.
Transcribed by Yvonne Jez, Mike Jenkinson, Ryan Jones.
Manchester 7 Oct 1819
Private
My Lord,
I have the honour to state to your Lordship that your letter of the 4th inst. to Mr. Norris has this morning been laid before the committee of Magistrates at the New Bailey. There were present Mr Hulton, Mr Tatton, Colonel Fletcher, Mr Norris and myself. Considering that your Lordship’s wish applied itself to a summary narrative of such occurrences as took place on the morning of the 16th, with certain preliminary circumstances necessary to the explanation of them, we have shaped our notes with reference to such wish. The time would not admit of our adopting any other method than that which we have followed. The Gentlemen living in the Country being gone out of town, assisted by Mr Norris I have drawn out the following narrative from the joint notes of the Committee.
Your Lordship will have received from Mr Norris from time to time, previously to the 11th July, various statements respecting the private movements of the disaffected. On that day he came over to me and communicated several particulars to me, and on the next day we went over to Sir John Byng. It was clear from Mr Norris’s account that some support would be necessary for the magistrates here, and that it would be proper that the districts should be put on their guard. Our Sessions commenced here on the 19th July and one of the first measures adopted by the Bench was to issue directions to the magistrates of neighbouring parts of Cheshire and the more distant districts of Lancashire to attend on the following Friday. A very numerous attendance was then given. I hope to be able to furnish your Lordship with the names. Mr Egerton was in the Chair, & amongst other proceedings a Select Committee of magistrates from both counties was appointed, the names of which were privately communicated to Your Lordship. At our Sessions it appeared that some spirited resolutions had been passed at the lately held Knutsford sessions, at which Lord Stamford attended; that these had been communicated to Lord Derby who in strong terms expressed his approbation of them. From the information received the Sessions signified to the Grand Jury the necessity they felt for an armed Association, and such proposition was also forwarded to Your Lordship and to Lord Derby.
The Select Committee of Magistrates met from time to time. After the first two meetings three of the committee were unable to attend and the remainder continued to act regularly, the name of Mr Wright being added to the Committee. These Magistrates of course amongst other matters received information in respect of different particulars connected with the views of the disaffected. It was soon made known that a meeting on which great stress was laid by the disaffected was fixed for the 9th August, but when the purposes of the meeting were published, the Magistrates issued a notification of their sense that it would be an unlawful meeting and of their intention to stop it. After consulting Counsel, one Sax[t]on, assistant to the Editor of the Observer, gave notice that the meeting was abandoned, but in that notice there was a peculiar expression, which caused the Committee and others whether or no the abandonment was real. The unexpected arrival of Hunt with Sir C. Wolseley at Stockport on the evening of the 8th and their proceeding to Manchester on the forenoon of the 9th, and going through the streets with an evident wish to court popularity strengthened our suspicion. In truth information was brought to us that emissaries had been dispatched to their friends to order their attendance at St. Peter’s that afternoon at 4 o’clock; this however proved unfounded. The parties proceeded to Johnson’s at Smedley, with a seeming intention to stay there; and as meetings were to be held at Leigh and at other places, the Magistrates thought that they meant to travel about to those places for the whole week, and to harass the military by attendance previous to the 16th on which day the meeting was proposed to be held. These circumstances were communicated to General Byng. However the apprehension was false. Sir Chas. Wolseley left Smedley and Hunt was principally engaged in writing and other Business.
On Saturday the 14th Hunt came with Johnson to the New Bailey and enquired for Mr Norris or me, we were not there; Mr Tatton and Mr Trafford were. Applying himself to Mr Tatton Hunt said, “I understand there is a warrant against me.” Mr Tatton replied “I am not aware that there is one.” Hunt said, “I merely have to say that that if there is a Warrant out against me I am ready to deliver myself up.” Before Dinner Mr Norris returned home and found Johnson writing a note to him. On Mr Norris’s appearing, Johnson stated the purpose of his enquiry was to know whether any warrant was out against Hunt. Mr answered, “I have issued none nor do I know of any.”
The Committee continued to meet and did so on Saturday the 14th, Sunday & Monday. Prior to Saturday different points had been discussed, as to
the propensity or expediency of stopping the meeting, and the manner of doing so. They were of opinion that multitudes coming in columns, with flags, and marching in military array, were even in the approach to the meeting, a
tumultuous assembly, and it was for a little time under consideration, whether each column should not be stopped at their respective entrances into the Town; but this was given up. It was considered that the military might thus be distracted, & it was wished that the Town should see what the meeting was
when assembled, and also that those who came, should be satisfied that they were assembled in an unlawful manner. In truth our information was such, that we could have little doubt but that the parties would assemble in an illegal manner. In addition to the general information of training from time to time there was specific information of the training to be at White Moss on the 15th early in the morning: we had also information that the parties were there told that it would be the last training that would be necessary before the meeting. Your Lordship will be aware that it was at this meeting on the 15th that Murray and Shawcross met with the treatment which was at the time detailed to you.
Under this information and being satisfied that in point of Law, that meeting if assembled, as it was expected, would be an illegal meeting we gave notice to Lieut. Col L’Estrange the commanding Officer here of our wish to have the assistance of the Military on the 16th and in the evening of the 15th. The arrangements in respect of the military were made. What the arrangements were, was unknown to the Magistrates: our advice and assistance as friends had been wished for in this respect but we declined giving them. They
were made between him & other Officers and Gentlemen in another room, so that we were total strangers to what was settled. In the morning of the 16th, we requested that the Town Constables & special Constables should be in attendance, but none of them knew in what particular instance, or for what particular purpose that might be employed [and] they attended in consequence. The Magistrates got to the ground, and were in a house fronting the area of St Peters, whence we could have a full view of what passed at the Hustings, though
we could not hear. The Area is computed to be about 14,000 Square Yards. This space was occupied very closely near the Hustings and in other parts more or less so.
We compute the numbers of those collected who took part in
the meeting to be about 30,000. Of these at least 20,000 were strangers to Manchester: we saw 5 or 6 columns march in these were from 2000 to 5000 each if not more: they marched in to quick time, with martial music, banners, and enseigns. The representation on several of the Banners have been communicated to Your Lordship: each column as it came in view marched directly up to the Hustings. As they came they were received with three cheers: their Banners were
then arranged in front & they were cheered again. This took place in every instance. After all the columns had arrived. Hunt came with his party, and the same reception took place. Prior to Hunt’s appearance on the ground one Owen came to us and gave information as to the parties in Hunts company. His information was taken in form, and a warrant filled up in consequence, and signed by ten Magistrates.
Before this the Magistrates had been not only on their own view convinced that the meeting was in terror of his Majesty’s subjects, but they had also taken the information of about 50 inhabitants who were to the same effect. In addition to this the Shops at the lower part of the Town at a quarter of a mile from St Peters, had been shut all the morning and but a very few could be prevailed on in the afternoon to take down their shutters.
The warrant was filled up about the time of Hunts arrival: Mr Andrew one of the town constables, came in the Magistrates room and told Mr Hulton that it could not be served without military aid. Nadin was in the room. Mr Hulton laid hold of Nadin by the arm and asked him whether it was possible for the Police aided by the special Constables to execute the warrant. Nadin replied neither with those special constables, nor with 10 times the number, nor with all the special constables in England. Mr Hulton asked him “cannot it be executed without military force?” Nadin answered it cannot. Mr Hulton said “then you shall have military Power, for God’s sake don’t sacrifice the lives of the special constables.”
The special Constables in the first instance were formed on one side of the Hustings; and an alley of them was formed up to the House where the Magistrates were, agreeably to a Plan, which will hereinafter be forwarded to your Lordship. As soon as the reformers came and saw the situation of the special constables they moved the Hustings twice: the first movement was about 8 yards distance: by this means they got between the special constables & the Hustings, and pushed them back: the second movement was merely to arrange the fronting of the Hustings. These men were 10 or 12 deep, linked together, their hats off & evidently placed to prevent the special constables from having access to the Hustings. The warrant was delivered into the hands of Mr Moore the towns constable. He delivered it over to Nadin the Deputy Constable.
Mr Hulton on learning that the civil power was inadequate to execute the warrant, sent notices by two gentlemen to the military in different situations, informing them of such inadequacy, and requesting their presence, in front of the
Magistrates house. Mr Andrew & Nadin & were now together. Mr Andrew headed the Yeomanry on foot towards the Hustings; but as the Yeomanry advanced on a trot, they got first to the Hustings, surrounded them, and Mr Andrew found himself mixed with them directly. He brought Johnson off – Nadin seized Hunt.
The cavalry on coming up to the House had to form. Prior to their forming, we observed the mob to wave their hats, and sticks and to defy them – they formed. Whilst they were forming and before they went up, Mr Ethelstone
read the riot Act, out of the window. Mr Silvester went down stairs, proceeded as far as he could into the Crowd and read the Riot Act, but before he had quite finished, he was pressed down by the Mob. As the Cavalry were advancing, Mr Hulton saw the Cavalry were assailed by Brick-bats &c. &c. several pistols were fired. Colonel L’Estrange and Colonel Dalrymple at this instant rode up with Mr Trafford (a Magistrate who attended the commanding Officer) and asked what they were about. Mr Hulton said, “don’t you see they are attacking the Cavalry – Disperse the Mob.” They were instantly dispersed. The Cavalry had been attacked about ¼ minute* before Col L’Estrange came up. From the time of forming the Cavalry to the dispersion of the Body of the Mob above ¼ of an hour did not elapse. The Magistrates in general, afterwards went about the town with different bodies of Troops. I went to the infirmary with Mr Silvester to learn the state of the patients who had been brought in. Mr Ransome the Surgeon, a very eminent one, a Quaker, observed to me that the Cavalry must have studied to do as little mischief as they could for the wounds were so slight.
I am to apologise for the haste in which this is written, but we can Barely save the Post, and we are most anxious that Your Lordship should not
be disappointed. Mr Norris is so good as to write the letter from my copy and I trust Your Lordship will excuse my only signing it. Should any further information be required, it will be readily afforded. As I return home on Saturday should any communication become necessary may I request that it should be made to Mr Norris.
I have the Honor to be
with Sincere respect
My Lord
Your Lordships faithful
Humble Servant
W. R. Hay.
*Memorandum. Mr Hulton in a letter addressed to Lord Sidmouth on the 17th October 1819, states that instead of having witnessed the attack of the mob on the Yeomanry Cavalry for ¼ minute only when Col. L’Estrange, Col. Dalrymple and Mr Trafford the Magistrate arrived, the Manchester Yeomanry, had then been assailed four or five minutes and were (as he firmly believes) exposed to the most imminent danger of being sacrifised, and he remained in conversation with Col L’Estrange &c. for a quarter of a minute: that is had only time to point out the point, in which he conceived the Yeomanry were exposed.